Jauhar Saleem is a career diplomat who worked at the highest echelons of Pakistan Foreign Service, including as Foreign Secretary, Special Secretary, Head of the Foreign Service Academy and Director General for European Affairs. He also served as Pakistan’s ambassador to Germany, Italy, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Bahrain, as well as Pakistan’s Permanent Representative to FAO, IFAD, and WFP. He was the elected President of the International Development Law Organization (IDLO) from 2020 to 2022.

He recently spoke to Bonik Barta regarding Islamabad’s surprise emergence as a mediator between Washington and Tehran, the looming threat of a global food crisis linked to the Strait of Hormuz, and the untapped potential for deeper trade and cultural ties between Bangladesh and Pakistan. The interview was conducted by Sabidin Ibrahim.

Pakistan has recently emerged as a mediator between the United States and Iran. Given the current volatile geopolitical landscape, how hopeful should we be about this effort — does it signal a real diplomatic opening or merely short-term de-escalation?

What Pakistan has accomplished in recent weeks in terms of its diplomacy is a remarkable feat. The whole world is appreciating it because many believe Pakistan brought not just this region, but the world, from the brink of disaster to a situation where we are heading in the direction of controlled de-escalation. Having the US and Iran sit at the same table after 49 years for such high-level face-to-face talks was perhaps unimaginable during this war. Having said that, we saw the deadlock that happened. We see the diplomacy taking place after that. Every day we see good news and sometimes bad news in terms of where things are heading.

The whole world is looking at Pakistan right now. The diplomacy taking place in the capitals — Tehran, Riyadh, Washington, all the important capitals — regarding the situation we are in. It’s not easy by any means. It’s very challenging.

There are huge impediments in the way of peace, in the way of an agreement. The biggest is the trust deficit between the two sides. The US and Israel on one hand, Iran on the other. The Gulf countries are also now a party to this conflict because they have been attacked. That trust deficit is historical. It’s seemingly insurmountable.

To neutralise that, Pakistan put its own credibility at stake because Pakistan is trusted by all sides of the conflict — Iran, the US, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries. Pakistan has excellent fraternal ties with Iran, with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries, and longstanding relations with the US, which are in a very good phase presently. Pakistan employed the confidence those countries have in Pakistan to fill some of that trust gap between the parties.

But there are critical issues which still need to be resolved. It started with fifteen points from the US and ten points from Iran. Initially, the positions were poles apart, totally divergent. From there, a framework of ten points was agreed upon through Pakistan’s hectic and intense diplomacy. It was on the basis of that framework that the first round of discussions took place in Islamabad, a twenty-hour marathon session.

Unfortunately, there was a deadlock, particularly because of differences on two or three critical points. Number one is the nuclear issue, where the two sides have very different perceptions. The second is sanctions relief and the unfreezing of assets — tens of billions of dollars of Iranian assets frozen by the US and Western countries. And thirdly, the matter of the Strait of Hormuz, which Iran had blocked and which the US and most of the world wanted unblocked to the extent it was just before the war.

Recently, Pakistan’s Military Chief Field Marshal Asim Munir visited Iran. Also, Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif visited Saudi Arabia along with the military chief. How hopeful are you of the de-escalation process and Pakistan’s effort?

A few days back, even up to the last couple of days, we were hearing a lot of good news. Iran agreed to unblock the Strait of Hormuz until the end of the ceasefire. That ceasefire deadline could have been extended. On the other hand, we saw a ceasefire in Lebanon as well. There were some other indications that the two sides are getting closer on the nuclear issue.

Bangladesh and many other energy-import-dependent countries are facing a crisis. How is Pakistan navigating through? How can we learn from focusing on renewable energy and depending less on fossil fuels when facing these volatile geopolitical situations?

All countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh — and even South Korea, China, Japan — a big part of Asia is facing an energy crisis. There is a bigger threat. Because thirty-four percent of the world’s fertilisers come through the Strait of Hormuz. Due to the blockage, there is a strong possibility of a food crisis in the coming months if this issue is not resolved.

In terms of Pakistan’s experience with renewables: it’s very interesting. In the sixties and seventies, Pakistan had an energy mix which was primarily renewable, based on hydroelectric dams. But then we made a mistake. We changed our energy mix more towards fossil fuels, thermal power. That has been a big disaster. Now we are trying to change our energy mix back to renewables, not just hydroelectric but also solar and wind.

What is happening in solar in Pakistan is fascinating. It has not been done at the state or governmental level. It has been done at the private sector level. Thousands upon thousands of megawatts of capacity have been added to the national grid through micro solar. People have set up solar plants on their rooftops, and even factories are shifting to solar-based energy. The statistics are remarkable. In just the last few years, by some estimates, more than ten thousand megawatts of capacity have been added through solar. That has really helped the country change its energy mix.

I think that is the way of the future: micro solar. Large-scale solar plants take time to set up and have some issues. We had issues with our mega solar plants, such as the Quaid-e-Azam Solar Park. But micro solar has been exceptionally successful. The prices have come down to a point where it is cheaper than energy produced from other means, including thermal. The for-profit market is now the mainstay of this change. That could be a good model for Bangladesh. Our countries are blessed with sun.

Similarly, Pakistan has added about one thousand to fifteen hundred megawatts of capacity through wind, but there have been challenges. If we get sort of a micro wind power technology eventually, that might be more successful. But micro solar has been spectacularly successful. I think that is something that could be emulated by our friends in Bangladesh.

Despite huge potential, bilateral trade between Pakistan and Bangladesh is very limited. What sectors could be potentially beneficial for Bangladesh and Pakistan to navigate in bilateral trade and commerce?

I believe there are lots of complementarities. It is true that both countries have similar exports and imports — big exporters of textiles and leather products, importers of machinery, electronics and pharmaceuticals. But there is a huge potential for creating value, creating synergies within the same sectors. Pakistan specialises in certain areas of textiles, while Bangladesh is excellent in garments. Pakistan is more specialised in home textiles. In surgical instruments, Pakistan has special expertise; Bangladesh has expertise in other areas. I believe there are lots of complementarities. Bilateral trade could very easily get into a multi-billion dollar framework in the coming years.

What we need to do are two things. One is to create institutional mechanisms to facilitate trade. Second is to enhance contact between our business leaders. More exchange of delegations, better dissemination of information about business opportunities in each other’s countries. Perhaps we also need alternative mechanisms. If we have to carry all our trade in US dollars, sometimes it becomes difficult because both countries face pressure on foreign reserves. If we can come up with alternative mechanisms for trade, that would be very helpful.

SAARC played a vital role in the 80s and 90s in bilateral trade, multilateral trade and cultural exchanges. Do you see any potential for reviving SAARC?

The potential is there. Unfortunately, it’s India’s obduracy, India’s intransigence, which is blocking the whole process. It is very unfortunate. South Asia houses one quarter of the world’s population, but intra-regional trade is less than three percent. In absolute terms, it’s abysmal. This is a potential totally unutilised. We need to focus on that. And not just bilateral trade — bilateral investment, multilateral regional investment, investment cooperation, regional tourism. We need to promote regional people-to-people contact in education, science, culture, so many different areas. For that, SAARC is a great vehicle. But we have to look at a scenario where with or without India, we move ahead.

The Secretary General of SAARC was in Pakistan last year. He is, of course, from Bangladesh. He visited my office. We had a very good discussion and exchanged ideas on how to reinvigorate SAARC. We have to remember that SAARC was the vision of a former Bangladesh president Ziaur Rahman.

I think this is the right time to reinvigorate SAARC. Pakistan and Bangladesh can play a pivotal role in this regard, working together.

Do you see any potential for a common currency and borderless trade and commerce like the European Union and other regional blocs?

We have to gradually move towards that type of regional cooperation. First, we have to start with fewer trade restrictions. The way forward is a free trade zone for the whole region. The next destination is to become a common market where capital, goods and services can move. Then you move forward. It’s a gradual process. But the unfortunate reality is that we haven’t even started the process. The European Union began in the 50s in terms of its inception. There are so many successful models like ASEAN and NAFTA. Unfortunately, South Asia is lagging far behind other regions in terms of regional integration. We need to start the process somewhere in a substantive manner.

In recent months, we have seen tension between Afghanistan and Pakistan, long-term neighbours and friendly nations. Will this escalate into long-term conflict or de-escalate soon?

Our sincere desire and our endeavours are that it does not escalate. Pakistan is facing the menace of terrorism emanating from Afghanistan. It is very unfortunate because they have made so many promises and commitments that they will not allow their soil to be used against Pakistan for terrorism or militancy. None of their promises or commitments has been realised. We were left with no choice but to use all the options we have. We have the military option, the kinetic option. We have the economic option in terms of bilateral trade and transit trade, because Afghanistan is a landlocked country. We used to provide them with avenues for transit trade. We can use diplomacy, which we have been doing — bilateral, regional, international, UN-based diplomacy.

We are using all possible means in a well-calibrated manner. Our purpose is simple. Instead of terrorism emanating from Afghanistan, we should have a cooperative, friendly relationship between the two countries because we have so many commonalities and historical linkages. If the flow of terrorism stops, there are wondrous opportunities for both countries. Afghanistan could be the linchpin, the connector in our vision to connect South Asia, Central Asia and West Asia because of its geostrategic location.

We hope sanity will prevail in Kabul and they will embark upon a path of peace and progress rather than conflict and discord.

A flight between Bangladesh and Pakistan was renewed last year. What potential do you see in people-to-people connections and how can cultural actions help re-bond national ties and influence bilateral trade and mutual respect?

I see great potential. Pakistan wants excellent relations with Bangladesh in all areas. That is our fervent desire. We want a relationship of trust, mutual respect, cooperation and cordiality. We want to see more people-to-people contact because there are so many commonalities and goodwill on both sides. I recently had a delegation from Bangladesh with media personalities, think tanks, researchers, scholars — a delegation of twenty or thirty people, some politicians as well. The goodwill we witnessed was amazing. The goodwill you will witness on Pakistan’s side, I believe, would be total reciprocity. That needs to be translated into a closer, more cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship in all areas.

Thank you for your valuable time and invaluable insights.

Always a pleasure.

[ Transcription by: Minhazul Abedin ]